Tubeless Monster Cross with CaffeLatex and Slime

The Front Wheel:

I wanted some more rubber on my Redline Conquest and run lower pressures since I was riding it a bit more like an MTB than a cross bike. So I decided to try WTB Mutano Raptors 700cx44. I am using Salsa Delgado Cross rims, Stans' rim strips, and CaffeLatex sealant. I was so eager to start the project that I did not mount the tire with a tube first.

CaffeLatex_1:


The front wheel: Salsa Delgado Cross rims, Stans' rim strip already mounted on the rim, a WTB Mutano Raptor 700cx44, and the CaffeLatex sealant and syringe.

CaffeLatex_2:


I mounted the tire, but I could not seat it with the compressor, even after liberal applications of soapy water and a lot of cussing. So I decided to add sealant and then try it again. I pulled the valve core to to add the CaffeLatex.

CaffeLatex_3:


The CaffeLatex syringe comes with a Schraeder valve and a Presta valve adapter. The Schraeder valve has a cool little one-way valve. But neither the Schraeder nor the Presta adapter would screw onto the Presta valve's post.

CaffeLatex_4:


The valve adapters on the end of the tube did not fit the Presta valve stem (I had the core removed) so I floated the end of the tube under the bead like a catheter and injected the CaffeLatex

CaffeLatex_7:


After adding the CaffeLatex I blasted in air with the compressor. The tire was brand new, never seated on a rim before, and I could not seat the bead before I added the sealant. At first I blew CaffeLatex sealant everywhere. Little drops of stuff that turned into stringy rubber. After a few seconds foam and bubbles formed and sproing... the tire seated and sealed.

CaffeLatex_8:


I cleaned the CaffeLatex foam off the tire with a sponge and some soapy water. The tire sealed very quickly but there was minor foaming around the rim and CaffeLatex liquid was running around the bead. I think the thin liquid was a mixture of CaffeLatex and soapy water.

CaffeLatex_11:


CaffeLatex doing its job. What you are actually seeing is CaffeLatex seaping through the rim/bead interface and some soapy water making the sealant even more viscous. After several iterations of shaking and flipping the wheel the foaming stopped and the tire held pressure overnight. There was some minor seepage and a small puddle of liquid on the floor the next day.

CaffeLatex_13:


The Rear Wheel: (Fugging Catastrophe)

After making a mess (see CaffeLatex_ with a brand new tire, I mounted the rear tire with a tube and let it conform to the rim overnight.

CaffeLatexSlime_1:


I mounted the WTB Mutano Raptor 700cx44 on a Salsa Delagdo Cross rim fitted with a Stans' rim strip. Even though the tire did not seat when trying to inflate it with the compressor I thought this was OK since the front tire seated and held air after adding sealant. See pic CaffeLatex_8. It was NOT ok as it turns out.

CaffeLatexSlime_2:


When I added sealant to the front wheel I pulled the valve core. Guitar Ted's blog mentioned that he injected the sealant with the valve core in the valve so I did that. Easy... just inflate now like the front tire. Bullshite. The rear tire would not seat itself. The only difference to the front tire was that the tire had been mounted overnight with a tube. Using the compressor I blew out all the sealant, added more, blew it out in streams of foam and got CaffeLatex everywhere. I could not take pictures. I simply did not work like the front tire.

CaffeLatexSlime_3:


The CaffeLatex was trying to seal the rim/bead but it could not, it was too runny and the air kept blowing it out of the tire. I needed some thicker stuff so I took everything apart and washed the tire, rims strip and rim. CaffeLatex cleans up easily with soap and water. Then I added about 30 or 40ml of Slime "Tube Sealant" by popping the bead and pouring a scoop in.

CaffeLatexSlime_4:


Initially the tire did not seal and I was now blowing green shite all over the place, getting pissed, and about to give up on this tire when 'spronk' (that's the noise it made) the tire seated. Escaping air bubbled out of the rim / bead interface sounding like frying bacon, but it seated. Shaking did not help much since the Slime Tube Sealant is so thick that it does not coat the inside of the tire quickly. I dropped the tire pressure to about 1 bar (14 or 15 psi), put 50ml of CaffeLatex in the syringe and screwed the tube onto the Presta valve. The Presta valve adapter screws into the Schraeder valve adapter which has a one way valve. This is cool because the tire pressure can not blow sealant out of the tire back into the syringe, so all you have to do is put more pressure onto the selant in the syringe and it will flow into the tire. That is some cool *** DOO DOO ***. Anyway, after adding the CaffeLatex and shaking the tire the bubbling and oozing on the rim/bead interface stopped. I cleaned up the tire and it held pressure overnight.

CaffeLatexSlime_5:


So is CaffeLatex and Slime compatible? I really don't know and my little test here doesn't prove anything... but... I added a small squirt of Slime to a clear water bottle. Vigorous shaking could not get the snot-like Slime to coat the bottle. I added an equal amount of CaffeLatex and shook. The CaffeLatex and Slime mixed and created a viscous green foam that covered everything. There is not a lot in the pictured bottle, less than 20cc total, about 10cc each of Slime and CaffeLatex.

CaffeLatexSlime_9:


Refilling the front wheel:

Since I blew a lot of sealant out of the tire (see see pic CaffeLatex_ I topped off the tire. The CafeLatex syring is pretty cool because of the one way valve and the sealant will flow over the valve core. I dropped the tire pressure way down, screwed on the syringe and squeezed. The sealant flowed in and all was good.

CaffelatexRefill_3


CaffelatexRefill_4


When I mounted the rear tire with a tube, it fit, I even rode it around a bit. I guess the tire stretched overnight because now, after all this work, the rear tire just barely fits with the eccentric hub's axle all the way to the rear. Unfortunately the chain is now just a bit too short, if I add a complete link the chain will be too loose, so I guess I need a half link... or a smaller tire.

I always thought it was better to mount the tire first with a tube so it conforms to the rim. In this case the new tire, folded and flattened out, seemed to initially push the beads tighter towards the rim allowing CaffeLatex to seal. The previously mounted tire's beads did not push against the rim as much ans as such the thin CaffeLatex would not create the initial seal needed to seat the tire. Slime Tube Sealant (not the tubeLESS sealant), with a consistency thicker than sinus-snot, did form such a seal and it appears that a CaffeLatex and Slime mixture might work.

The WTB Mutano Raptors mounted and are holding pressure, but the bead does not sit crazy tight like the GEAX TNT tires. And it looks like I might have to find a 700cx38/40 tire for the rear and the associated unpleasant removing and cleansing.

Removable valve cores: not necessary with CaffeLatex.

Anyway, it was kind of fun, not a lot of fun, but working on bike is almost as good as riding them. Hopefully a ride report will follow soon.

Marty

Marty let us know how it works out.

WOWThat was a lot of work. I have one question for you . How much weight did you safe by not running a tube?

why are so many people against tubeless?

Never said I was against it.

Sharpbike wrote:WOWThat was a lot of work. I have one question for you . How much weight did you safe by not running a tube?

Probably none. Additionally I don't uset weight as the primary criteria driving my decision making process. I don't really tend to do thing right or by doctrine and I have been misusing a cross bike (with Fubars, not dropbars) as a light MTB. What I am trying to save is my ass and thumbs. To save my ass on rooty fireroads I dropped the pressure on my previous rear tire, a 700cx35. Well, after pinch flatting in the woods, and on the way to work on a minor curb I decided to go more monstercross. My thumbs hopefully will not have to roll tires off and or on rims after flats any more.

Additionally I had to work weekends due to AC09 so I did this at work which is better than working at work.

Now the rear tire just barely clears the frame and the slightest wheel flex makes it buzz against the chain stay so I 'll be doing this all over for a smaller rear tire. Probably something in the 700cx38/40 size.

As long as my boss doesn't bust me in the back room.

Marty

UnitedWeRide wrote:why are so many people against tubeless?

It can be a real pain in the arse with certain rim/tire combos, others you can inflate with a floor pump. It can become very messy and aggravating if you get a combo that doesn't work well together.

Everyone assumes it's about the weight. Weight is only a small part of the advantage. Ride them over rooty, rocky, technical terrain and you will immediately notice the tires are more supple, even if running the same pressure as you ran with tubes. The tires conform to what's beneath them and give loads more grip. Of course another benefit is that you can run lower pressures without fear of a pinch flat so you don't have to run them as high as you did with tubes. Finally, if you're a weight freak, they are lighter than running a conventional tube, especially if you're going to add Slime to make it self-sealing. Sure you get the ultra-lite, 100g tubes but you'd certainly pinch flat running them at pressures you can run safely with tubeless.

fjaws wrote:

UnitedWeRide wrote:why are so many people against tubeless?

It can be a real pain in the arse with certain rim/tire combos, others you can inflate with a floor pump. It can become very messy and aggravating if you get a combo that doesn't work well together.

Yup, some tire/rim combos don't work and others are a pain. I tried some ghetto-tubeless before committing to the real deal.
Here are my data points (all 29er):

Ghetto Tubeless:
Bontrager Mustang Rims / Stan's Crows
Difficult to mount tires, aired up easily and held air (for a while) with out sealant. Burped once at real low pressure.
Delgado Cross Rims / Bontrager ACXs
Easy to mount tire, took a bit to air up, no issues running the tires

Stan's Rims Strip:
Delgado Corss Rims/ WTB Mutano Raptor
Easy to mount tire, did NOT want to air up, holding pressure so far, not ridden hard yet

Tubeless / TNT with Stan's yellow tape:
Stan's Flows rims / Saguaro TNTs
Tire impossible to mount, air up easily and held pressure without sealant for a long time, with sealant could run crazy low pressures without sidewall deformation/dimpling